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TSCH now with DA and ECNL

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TSCH now with DA and ECNL

Post by TSC010405 on Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:40 pm

Congratulations to TSCH for being accepted into the DA on the girls side. That's very good for our great state and the City of Tulsa.

Can anyone give reasons as to why they think TSCH was selected over other clubs in Oklahoma. Being a part of ECNL already had to be a major factor.

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Re: TSCH now with DA and ECNL

Post by BASoccer on Tue Jul 12, 2016 2:28 pm

ECNL certainly didn't hurt TSC's application, but I do think OFC will get in at some point as things evolve.

My big question is how much will this water down TSC teams in leagues like ECNL and SRPL? I suppose TSC will start pulling the top girls from other local clubs (weren't they already doing this with ECNL?), but the talent pool is obviously limited compared to other ECNL / DA members.

Can TSC competitively support DA, ECNL, Composite, and SRPL teams? Seems like a lot for the club. I can see the OPL / OCL teams struggling a bit more against other Oklahoma clubs that don't disperse as much talent in the higher leagues.

Am I completely off-base here?

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Re: TSCH now with DA and ECNL

Post by Yellowcard on Tue Jul 12, 2016 4:12 pm

BASoccer wrote:ECNL certainly didn't hurt TSC's application, but I do think OFC will get in at some point as things evolve.

My big question is how much will this water down TSC teams in leagues like ECNL and SRPL? I suppose TSC will start pulling the top girls from other local clubs (weren't they already doing this with ECNL?), but the talent pool is obviously limited compared to other ECNL / DA members.

Can TSC competitively support DA, ECNL, Composite, and SRPL teams? Seems like a lot for the club. I can see the OPL / OCL teams struggling a bit more against other Oklahoma clubs that don't disperse as much talent in the higher leagues.

Am I completely off-base here?

No... you are spot on. I don't see them staying competitive in all of those leagues unless more kids funnel over from NEOFC, WSA, Blitz, Etc... But I understand that alot of them play with those clubs because they don't like TSC for one reason or another. However I have seen many times where a kid doesn't get picked for a top level team (Which they had no business on whatsoever) and the parents get mad and move clubs like that will fix everything. So we will see what happens but I won't hold my breath on being competitive below the top 2 maybe 3 teams... And they might not even be competitive in those areas...
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Re: TSCH now with DA and ECNL

Post by 918soccer on Tue Jul 12, 2016 10:54 pm

I think it's HUGE for girls in Tulsa to have an opportunity to play at the highest level of soccer in the USA. Not all cities have this opportunity, Tulsa is very fortunate, and only the biggest soccer markets have both DA and ECNL. Girls can try for DA and if they don't make it they can shoot for ECNL, which will still have some of the best female players and teams in the country and will still be a primary resource for college recruiting.  TSC will be thin some years and stacked other years, that doesn't matter. What matters is that our girls now have the same opportunity as kids in other states.  Tulsa is very fortunate to have both DA and ECNL.

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Re: TSCH now with DA and ECNL

Post by BASoccer on Wed Jul 13, 2016 12:16 pm

I agree that it's good for the area to be able to participate in DA, from a prestige standpoint and most importantly providing an opportunity to have the most talented girls play in an environment tailored around development.

I just think there could be too many 'tiers' now. Do we really need an ECNL composite league when those girls could fill the ECNL spots vacated by those who moved on to DA? It's not like SRPL is chop liver either, but the roster shuffling will start to trickle down and affect TSC teams there as well.

I have to say it gives me slight pause when we just left another club for TSC, which was partly due to the known quantities in the coaching staff, and the stability of the program while all clubs transitioned to the calendar year. My daughter's ceiling might only be SRPL (just my parental assessment, I would never limit her or put that on her), but you'd like your team to be highly competitive at whatever level or league you play in.  

It'll be really interesting to see how the SRPL teams and below compete within their respective leagues. If the middle and lower premier squads become too diluted, TSC might not be the first choice for kids who won't reach the elite leagues.

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Re: TSCH now with DA and ECNL

Post by Yellowcard on Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:45 pm

BASoccer wrote:I agree that it's good for the area to be able to participate in DA, from a prestige standpoint and most importantly providing an opportunity to have the most talented girls play in an environment tailored around development.

I just think there could be too many 'tiers' now. Do we really need an ECNL composite league when those girls could fill the ECNL spots vacated by those who moved on to DA? It's not like SRPL is chop liver either, but the roster shuffling will start to trickle down and affect TSC teams there as well.

I have to say it gives me slight pause when we just left another club for TSC, which was partly due to the known quantities in the coaching staff, and the stability of the program while all clubs transitioned to the calendar year. My daughter's ceiling might only be SRPL (just my parental assessment, I would never limit her or put that on her), but you'd like your team to be highly competitive at whatever level or league you play in.  

It'll be really interesting to see how the SRPL teams and below compete within their respective leagues. If the middle and lower premier squads become too diluted, TSC might not be the first choice for kids who won't reach the elite leagues.

I think it will only strengthen the academy and early competitive years... Since the elite leagues don't actually start until U14 more kids will gravitate to try for those upper leagues making TSC more competitive in the early years. The later years is where we will see some drop off for the ones that don't make or try for Elite leagues...
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Re: TSCH now with DA and ECNL

Post by FootballDad05 on Wed Jul 13, 2016 4:18 pm

A Salvo being sent by ECNL to clubs with DA, if they make ECNL weak by letting DA only be competitive clubs will be cut. This may hurt TSC if they can't keep quality numbers up for both leagues. Can't blame ECNL in wanting to keep competion levels high.

http://www.eliteclubsnationalleague.com/home/920431.html



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Re: TSCH now with DA and ECNL

Post by TSC010405 on Wed Jul 13, 2016 7:38 pm

TSCH is deep enough in most age groups to still compete well in DA and ECNL. This will give more girls a chance to show what they can do. Remember all the other clubs will be doing the same thing. TSCH isn't huge like some of the Dallas teams but pretty deep in talent. What this will likely do is do away with all composite teams. I don't think that's a bad thing any ways seeing as how it's all kind of jacked up.

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Re: TSCH now with DA and ECNL

Post by BASoccer on Wed Jul 13, 2016 7:52 pm

Yellowcard wrote:I think it will only strengthen the academy and early competitive years...  Since the elite leagues don't actually start until U14 more kids will gravitate to try for those upper leagues making TSC more competitive in the early years.  The later years is where we will see some drop off for the ones that don't make or try for Elite leagues...

That seems like a plausible scenario. Makes sense.

FootballDad05 wrote:A Salvo being sent by ECNL to clubs with DA, if they make ECNL weak by letting DA only be competitive clubs will be cut. This may hurt TSC if they can't keep quality numbers up for both leagues. Can't blame ECNL in wanting to keep competion levels high.

http://www.eliteclubsnationalleague.com/home/920431.html

I see. I think it's only fair. I guess we'll see what the standard of expectations are going forward.

TSC010405 wrote:TSCH is deep enough in most age groups to still compete well in DA and ECNL.  This will give more girls a chance to show what they can do.  Remember all the other clubs will be doing the same thing.  TSCH isn't huge like some of the Dallas teams but pretty deep in talent.  What this will likely do is do away with all composite teams.  I don't think that's a bad thing any ways seeing as how it's all kind of jacked up.

So you think ENCL Composite will go away completely or that TSC will forgo competing in that particular area? I think the organization would be better off in the long run, but could this come down to an ego deal for the club?

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Re: TSCH now with DA and ECNL

Post by FootballDad05 on Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:19 pm

the composite ECNL league is already created as LHGCL Champions League at least for this year its good that girls will be able to play now. Future for composite Champions league looks finished though with the advent of DA. Too many leagues for us to compete hard in each and state leagues as well with composite taking players from 2 combined years.


Last edited by FootballDad05 on Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:38 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: TSCH now with DA and ECNL

Post by FootballDad05 on Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:33 pm

I think ego will take a harder hit if the ECNL takes away membership. ECNL operates now from U11-U18, DA has 16 players from 2 combined age groups U14-U18. The next announcement from ECNL is supposed to be by the rumor mill clubs being dropped to improve competition and take away from detractors saying the league has become too watered down with less elite clubs. Dallas is a good example of having too many clubs, 5 ECNL and DA clubs it waters down the player pool. Even being a metro this is a lot of clubs i dont think even Cali has this many ECNL/DA clubs concentrated into a metro area. Also GDA supposedly will not be having tryouts but instead girls picked by the Coach for TSCH/DA among all available player pool, irrespective of Club. This is how the boys operate why would the model be different for girls. We have a friend with a child on the boys side who is in DA and this is how they did theirs, invite only.

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Re: TSCH now with DA and ECNL

Post by 918soccer on Thu Jul 14, 2016 3:33 pm

ECNL has a minimum performance standard that clubs have to meet to keep their membership. TSC has never been close to that minimum and are in no danger of loosing their membership. Although DA will pull 8 or so players from each age group from the ECNL pool, TSC is deep enough to have very strong ECNL teams. Some years will be better than others but right now the younger age groups at TSC - 02,03,04,05 - are strong and deep. TSC will do well in these leagues and the addition of DA only creates more opportunities for girls in Tulsa to play at the highest level.

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Re: TSCH now with DA and ECNL

Post by Gunners006 on Thu Jul 14, 2016 4:50 pm

I think will be interesting with TSC choosing DA as the top teams and ECNL getting second choice why would they want to stay with TSCH, knowing that over time the teams will only get weaker!

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Re: TSCH now with DA and ECNL

Post by FootballDad05 on Thu Jul 14, 2016 4:59 pm

It will all come down to the player pool and development at the younger ages so they are prepared by the time U11 JR ECNL starts. The Jr and Full ECNL league should help in overall quality player improvement through stronger competion with N TX. DA if your DD gets asked should be a bonus. But the fact of jr ecnl into either upper league will help TSC.

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Re: TSCH now with DA and ECNL

Post by 918soccer on Thu Jul 14, 2016 5:23 pm

The macro picture for ECNL will go unchanged and will still have most of the top players and teams in the country. Because of the quality of the organization and shear numbers of top-quality players, compared to DA, ECNL will remain the top recruiting tool for colleges. That's one reason some parents might want their their kids play ECNL.

I think the bigger reason is that ECNL accelerates player development. For example, last year a player move from Arsenal to TSC to play JR ECNL. She was a standout on the team she was playing for but when she moved to TSC she was below average. In a very short period of time, this player raised her game leaps and bounds (don't know if that can be accredited to the drive or quality of her teammates, her coaches or the teams she played against) but she is now one of the top players in the age group and just made the 03 ECNL team. I don't think she would have experienced this rate of development if she hadn't set a goal to play ECNL and move to TSC.

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Re: TSCH now with DA and ECNL

Post by Gunners006 on Thu Jul 14, 2016 6:02 pm

But do you think Tsch have the numbers to fill all those teams with really good players!! Ok how many ECNL teams finished in the 1 or 2 in the Texas division? Oh I have the answer just 1 and the u14 teams finished 3 and after that the finished in tenth, ninth and seventh!!


Last edited by Gunners006 on Thu Jul 14, 2016 6:24 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Mis info)

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Re: TSCH now with DA and ECNL

Post by Gunners006 on Thu Jul 14, 2016 6:10 pm

That shows me we do not have the talent to put a DA team on the field and a really good ECNL team on the field!! My opinion.

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Re: TSCH now with DA and ECNL

Post by 918soccer on Thu Jul 14, 2016 6:27 pm

TSC consistently ranks in the top half of ECNL clubs and even if a particular age group doesn't, players on that team still get better for playing the best. You don't have to win a game to learn from it and get better.

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Re: TSCH now with DA and ECNL

Post by FootballDad05 on Thu Jul 14, 2016 6:35 pm

The talent is there but it has to be developed. Plus parents have to decide if their DD is commited to play at that level. This is where the biggest problem is, too many parents/kids want to play 2-3 sports. They lack touch and an ability to read the game that should have been developed younger. The definition of good is arbitrary since the player pool is an unknown quantity at younger levels. Players should be selected out of rec to be developed not placed on a team  but truely developed but everyone is worried about getting on the best team to win as many trophies as they can. This creates uneven teams that have an odd gem among them. Either way TSC has both DA/ECNL what do the other Club teams giving you a chance to try out for, Gunner06, Blitz offers nothing but uncertainty.


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Re: TSCH now with DA and ECNL

Post by Gunners006 on Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:08 pm

What I can tell is Blitz has nothing to offer. But post on here say they might merge with OFC or something like that! So until next season in 2017 no one will not what all this change will bring to Oklahoma! I just hope TSCH and Blitz get it right with their programs for Tulsa can flourish as a soccer community!!

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Re: TSCH now with DA and ECNL

Post by FootballDad05 on Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:25 pm

If the merger happens OFC and Blitz would need new management and infrastructure. That is where both programs need better direction and what has probably held OFC back from garnering ECNL or DA.

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Re: TSCH now with DA and ECNL

Post by Yellowcard on Fri Jul 15, 2016 2:49 am

Gunners006 wrote:That shows me we do not have the talent to put a DA team on the field and a really good ECNL team on the field!! My opinion.

TSC has more talent than you think... The majority of ECNL teams could have been filled with other players that are every bit as good to have made those teams but politics plays its hand... Trust me when I say that there are girls on the composite 03/02 team that could have or should have made ECNL over some of the ones that did. The problem is there isn't a clear cut selection process that picks the very best of the best. I am not discounting the kids that got picked as they are very good. But TSC is deeper than most people give credit for.
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Re: TSCH now with DA and ECNL

Post by TSC010405 on Fri Jul 15, 2016 5:26 pm

Yellowcard wrote:
Gunners006 wrote:That shows me we do not have the talent to put a DA team on the field and a really good ECNL team on the field!! My opinion.

TSC has more talent than you think...  The majority of ECNL teams could have been filled with other players that are every bit as good to have made those teams but politics plays its hand...  Trust me when I say that there are girls on the composite 03/02 team that could have or should have made ECNL over some of the ones that did.  The problem is there isn't a clear cut selection process that picks the very best of the best.  I am not discounting the kids that got picked as they are very good.  But TSC is deeper than most people give credit for.  

That is correct! I've seen that happen many times at all ages. There are going to be ups and downs with any club, but overall TSC has been very good and there is a reason they are being picked for things like ECNL and DA and other clubs are not.

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Re: TSCH now with DA and ECNL

Post by BASoccer on Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:49 pm

Interesting....

TSC Hurricane to Focus on ECNL

The Club Will Decline the Invitation to the US Soccer Development Academy for the 2017-18 Season

November 29, 2016 - Tulsa, OK -- After much consideration, TSC Hurricane has decided to decline our invitation into the U.S. Girls Development Academy for the 2016/2017 season.

The TSC Hurricane Leadership Group feel the Elite Clubs National League (ECNL) has provided our players with a league that is the best female youth league in the world. The ECNL has provided the structure, competition and showcase events that allow our players to develop into collegiate level athletes. In addition, our ECNL Conference has collaborated with the Texas Champions League which is building to be a tremendous platform for our players striving to play in the ECNL. Our current structure enables us to continue to develop elite level players in the clearest and most efficient way. In the last 6 years the ECNL has helped us graduate hundreds of players who have gone on to play at some of the best colleges in the country.  We have also consulted with many college coaches on the matter.

After thorough consideration of our current structure, market and future plans, at length, we feel that it would be very difficult for our club, or any club for that matter, to have the resources to compete in both leagues at the highest level. In addition there would be a continual internal conflict within the club about where players should be playing and who should be coaching. At some point one league would ultimately become secondary within the club and we feel this isn't fair to either league, our players or our coaching staff.

In making our decision, below are the major factors we considered;

Condensing our ECNL teams from 6 to 3 DA teams, and then not having a quality league to provide for the remaining players, would negatively impact many players and hurt our club. This would also reduce development opportunities for coaches.

The DA would not allow High School participation.  While we are in support of this philosophy for elite players at a certain level, we are unsure if our region is ready to fully embrace it as it would require a cultural shift in our market and a difficult decision for players.

The prospect of a Boys ECNL will provide new and expanded opportunities for boys players that have previously been unavailable in Oklahoma. We expect the Boys ECNL will significantly change the national landscape for boys much like the Girls ECNL.

The ECNL is the best platform available to our players so we see no reason to change. The ECNL provides the best structure, competition, and showcases possible -- especially for players who aspire to play at quality college programs.

Our end goal is to provide the best training and playing environment for ALL of our players and to make sure we help them get into the best colleges in the country. Our current ECNL/NPL structure is the best platform for us to do this.


The Federation obviously accepted our club based on our qualifications and player development history and we appreciate US Soccer’s invitation and faith in our club.  It was a difficult decision to not fully participate in the Development Academy for the 2016-17 season.  In any event, TSC Hurricane will continue to evaluate each year what national platforms would be in the best interest of our players.

Rest assured, TSC Hurricane will continue to be the leader in Oklahoma in the development of players at the highest levels of the game and providing the best platforms, coaches and programs to ensure that continues for the long term.

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Re: TSCH now with DA and ECNL

Post by TSC010405 on Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:14 pm

I think this is a great idea. What they said in the announcement is exactly how I and many others feel. ECNL has been incredible and I think to stay competitive DA would have really thinned us out.

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