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Age Pure Projections

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Age Pure Projections

Post by ENERGYFC04 on Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:46 pm

I think it goes without saying that Age Pure is going to present some major shakeups in the coming year. This board has seemed to ignore those shakeups but with tryouts around the corner any thoughts how things are going to shake out? Any clubs or age groups make movement up the charts? Does this destroy some of the smaller clubs that were already relying on kids playing up to form their teams? Will there be major player movement (Blitz vs TSC always seems in play)?

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Re: Age Pure Projections

Post by Yellowcard on Thu Apr 14, 2016 3:23 pm

I think many of the smaller clubs will continue to play their kids up on the next age group. Which could help many of them! If they have a hard time fielding enough 04's for a team for instance, they might play those 04s up with 03s and so on. Those younger kids playing up might possibly gain some momentum and be able to jump to larger clubs in the future and make better teams... Just a thought. TSC will still put together the top teams in each age group overall... The only people I see jumping ship are the ones that probably shouldn't have been on the teams they were on in the first place and when they don't get picked for a 1-2 level team they get their feelers hurt! Sad
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Re: Age Pure Projections

Post by The Soccer 1% on Mon Apr 18, 2016 2:53 pm

I think there are two worlds and this change is going to impact them differently. For those striving for ECNL and for competing against the Texas teams this is a big shakeup for that world individually. As clubs, TSC/OFC are positioned to take advantage of this change by just rearranging the decks and, in theory, making those top teams more competitive regionally. Then, there are those of us out there who don't place such a premium on striving to the top due to desire, $, abilities, etc. Or, we have kids where soccer is only one of the things that they do. OPL Gold/Silver/OCL doesn't much matter to me. So, we will play up more and keep our teams together. It will be an honor to climb out of OCL into OPL and then strive to get into Gold. I think we will find that the level of play in OCL and OPL Silver will improve a little and all will be well with the world.

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Re: Age Pure Projections

Post by Pass and Move on Tue Apr 26, 2016 10:32 pm

I like the drama of the 02s and 03s. I think it takes precedence, so it's only right to include Fall-born 01s. In the younger age groups, it's gonna be about managing the influx to TSC and OFC. And about mergers across the smaller clubs. I just hope it helps the kids with real ability and skill and dropkicks the political nonsense that has dominated club soccer in Oklahoma.

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Re: Age Pure Projections

Post by The Soccer 1% on Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:53 pm

Pass and Move wrote:I like the drama of the 02s and 03s. I think it takes precedence, so it's only right to include Fall-born 01s. In the younger age groups, it's gonna be about managing the influx to TSC and OFC. And about mergers across the smaller clubs. I just hope it helps the kids with real ability and skill and dropkicks the political nonsense that has dominated club soccer in Oklahoma.

Can you elaborate a little? How could you fold in '01's locally if they don't do it nationally?

I think the political stuff is more dominant now than it was 10 years ago. Basically, you've got to be part of the corporate experience if you have a top kid in this state. I don't know how some people afford it. I hope they have some good profit sharing/scholarship programs for some families. My kid is not on that level so it's not an issue with me.

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Re: Age Pure Projections

Post by ENERGYFC04 on Wed Apr 27, 2016 6:05 pm

Doing away with the political correct speaking this is what is going on. Every kid (unless you have ECNL dreams which we could debate but i won't for this post as supporters will not be swayed) is a free agent. If your kid is a top player then you are surveying what is the best option for you given the vast amount of unknowns and your geographic location.

I can say this as fact. For example, at SLSC our 04 group mainly consists of 04s. I feel very good about this group and other kids on this side of the state do as well. Had we been returning 4-5 kids like some teams i wouldn't have felt as well and my kid would have been a free agent.

The above is and should be analysis for every parent. TSC and OFC don't #$#@$ golden bricks. Although they have numbers they do have age groups where they are not as strong or have to rely on buying out coaches from other clubs to get their teams. Those who say chemistry et al don't matter are fooling yourselves. We have seen it with Lakers adding Karl Malone and Gary Payton to the Eagles NFL all-star team a few years ago. Chemistry, familiarity and the right coaching situation matters.

I think age pure will shake out different than what people believe. I don't see all the players migrating to TSC and OFC. In fact i see some of the opposite given what some have aptly described as political shenanigans.

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Re: Age Pure Projections

Post by Pass and Move on Wed Apr 27, 2016 6:15 pm

The Soccer 1% wrote:
Pass and Move wrote:I like the drama of the 02s and 03s. I think it takes precedence, so it's only right to include Fall-born 01s. In the younger age groups, it's gonna be about managing the influx to TSC and OFC. And about mergers across the smaller clubs. I just hope it helps the kids with real ability and skill and dropkicks the political nonsense that has dominated club soccer in Oklahoma.

Can you elaborate a little?  How could you fold in '01's locally if they don't do it nationally?

I think the political stuff is more dominant now than it was 10 years ago.  Basically, you've got to be part of the corporate experience if you have a top kid in this state.  I don't know how some people afford it.  I hope they have some good profit sharing/scholarship programs for some families.  My kid is not on that level so it's not an issue with me.  

In the drama, is what I meant. The top 02 and 03 teams were predominantly born in Fall prior to the respective age group years. For those completing/ approaching the ECNL/SRPL/OPL year, things are a crap-shoot and the questionable inclusions are likely kicked to lesser squads.


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Re: Age Pure Projections

Post by bird04 on Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:01 pm

Pass and Move wrote:
The Soccer 1% wrote:
Pass and Move wrote:I like the drama of the 02s and 03s. I think it takes precedence, so it's only right to include Fall-born 01s. In the younger age groups, it's gonna be about managing the influx to TSC and OFC. And about mergers across the smaller clubs. I just hope it helps the kids with real ability and skill and dropkicks the political nonsense that has dominated club soccer in Oklahoma.

Can you elaborate a little?  How could you fold in '01's locally if they don't do it nationally?

I think the political stuff is more dominant now than it was 10 years ago.  Basically, you've got to be part of the corporate experience if you have a top kid in this state.  I don't know how some people afford it.  I hope they have some good profit sharing/scholarship programs for some families.  My kid is not on that level so it's not an issue with me.  

In the drama, is what I meant. The top 02 and 03 teams were predominantly born in Fall prior to the respective age group years. For those completing/ approaching the ECNL/SRPL/OPL year, things are a crap-shoot and the questionable inclusions are likely kicked to lesser squads.

Is that true? I don't know much about the 02's and do know a little about the 03's, so I guess it could be true...The team I am most familiar with, Griffin 04, is pretty much split right down the middle into true age 03's and true age 04's. But could be the case for the 02 and 03's at TSC and Blitz, etc... I suppose.

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Re: Age Pure Projections

Post by bird04 on Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:04 pm

ENERGYFC04 wrote:Doing away with the political correct speaking this is what is going on.   Every kid (unless you have ECNL dreams which we could debate but i won't for this post as supporters will not be swayed) is a free agent.   If your kid is a top player then  you are surveying what is the best option for you given the vast amount of unknowns and your geographic location.

I can say this as fact.   For example, at SLSC our 04 group mainly consists of 04s.   I feel very good about this group and other kids on this side of the state do as well.    Had we been returning 4-5 kids like some teams i wouldn't have felt as well and my kid would have been a free agent.  

The above is and should be analysis for every parent.   TSC and OFC don't #$#@$ golden bricks.  Although they have numbers they do have age groups where they are not as strong or have to rely on buying out coaches from other clubs to get their teams.   Those who say chemistry et al don't matter are fooling yourselves.  We have seen it with Lakers adding Karl Malone and Gary Payton to the Eagles NFL all-star team a few years ago.  Chemistry, familiarity and the right coaching situation matters.  

I think age pure will shake out different than what people believe.   I don't see all the players migrating to TSC and OFC.  In fact i see some of the opposite given what some have aptly described as political shenanigans.

Agree. Especially at this age group and especially with girls.

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Re: Age Pure Projections

Post by ENERGYFC04 on Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:36 pm

Tryouts will be interesting. The hardest part for coaches dealing with these changes is there are unfamiliar kids and thus trying to extrapolate how they do against bigger or smaller kids.

Furthermore, kids in the 04 age group go through peaks and valleys. Coaches who know the kids and/or well formed teams that have chemistry are more willing to accept these peaks and valleys and really know the baseline. However, when placed with a new coach with new players coaches may not realize, know and/or be willing to accept valleys.

On a serious note, what if a 12 year old girl is menstruating for the first or second time during tryouts. This can have a profound psychological and/or physical impact on the kid. Will the coach know their ability or will biology kick them off that team.


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Re: Age Pure Projections

Post by 04eastside on Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:37 pm

bird04 wrote:
ENERGYFC04 wrote: [/b]

I think age pure will shake out different than what people believe.   I don't see all the players migrating to TSC and OFC.  In fact i see some of the opposite given what some have aptly described as political shenanigans.

Agree. Especially at this age group and especially with girls.

We'll see. The problem is parents accept being lied to for years. Some will be told their daughter still has a chance for ECNL glory or a top team, even though it's a lie. They believe the lie, because at the end of the day, they're lying to themselves about their daughters skill set. It's tough to to hear "your daughter isn't ready or good enough." So they would rather repeat the lie to others "Coach said she's ready, just need a little more work and she'll get a chance. " that's easier, even after 1 yr, 2yrs and in some cases 3yrs being told the same.

I hope we all as parents have the confidence to TRULY do what's best for your daughter and not give the BS line "Im doing what's best for my daughter" because in some cases, YOUR NOT. You just don't have the balls to deal with other parents and peers when asked why your daughter isn't on the top team.

There are some really good players at all these clubs. I am a BLITZ dad through and through, but i b would be stupid to say TSC does not have good players, coaches and teams. I am at Blitz, not because I think she may or may not be good enough for ECNL, I am here because she's getting better, she likes her Coach and teammates. She still has a blast where she is.

Let's be real, if your daughter isn't in the "core group" of whatever team she's on, she's replaceable in a coaches mind. With these girls getting older and the sub rules, you better be REALLY confident your coach believes she's a good soccer player. Not just fast, not just a big girl, not just a great shooter, but a good SOCCER PLAYER.

"I'm doing what's best for my daughter." To some a say, yeah right and BS. To the rest of you that REALLY mean that, I hope whatever genuin decision you make WITH your daughter is the right one.






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Re: Age Pure Projections

Post by Yellowcard on Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:39 pm

Here Bird goes again with his bold letters!  It is the case with some teams...  Beattie has a ton of 02s on his 03 team.  But it's not always like that.  Like Bird said Griffin has a split down the middle of 03/04 and their best players are 04s... I think Banham and Williams have more 03s and Rhein and Schwarz have a good mix of 01/02.  The more I have looked into it I see it's strictly dependent on the kid...
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Re: Age Pure Projections

Post by ENERGYFC04 on Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:44 pm

04eastside wrote:
bird04 wrote:
ENERGYFC04 wrote: [/b]

I think age pure will shake out different than what people believe.   I don't see all the players migrating to TSC and OFC.  In fact i see some of the opposite given what some have aptly described as political shenanigans.

Agree. Especially at this age group and especially with girls.

We'll see.   The problem is parents accept being lied to for years.   Some will be told their daughter still has a chance for ECNL glory or a top team,  even though it's a lie.   They believe the lie,  because at the end of the day,  they're lying to themselves about their daughters skill set.   It's tough to to hear "your daughter isn't ready or good enough."  So they would rather repeat the lie to others "Coach said she's ready,  just need a little more work and she'll get a chance. "  that's easier,  even after 1 yr, 2yrs and in some cases 3yrs being told the same.

I hope we all as parents have the confidence to TRULY do what's best for your daughter and not give the BS line "Im doing what's best for my daughter" because in some cases,  YOUR NOT.   You just don't have the balls to deal with other parents and peers when asked why your daughter isn't on the top team.

There are some really good players at all these clubs.   I am a BLITZ dad through and through,  but i b would be stupid to say TSC does not have good players,  coaches and teams.   I am at Blitz,  not because I think she may or may not be good enough for ECNL, I am here because she's getting better,  she likes her Coach and teammates.  She still has a blast where she is.

Let's be real,  if your daughter isn't in the "core group" of whatever team she's on,  she's replaceable in a coaches mind.   With these girls getting older and the sub rules, you better be REALLY confident your coach believes she's a good soccer player.   Not just fast,  not just a big girl,  not just a great shooter, but a good SOCCER PLAYER.  

"I'm doing what's best for my daughter."  To some a say, yeah right and BS.  To the rest of you that REALLY mean that,  I hope whatever genuin decision you make WITH your daughter is the right one.






cheers Amen

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Re: Age Pure Projections

Post by Pass and Move on Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:45 pm

Rhein has 4 01s and Schwartz Gold has 6. I don't know of an exact count on the ECNL group, but understand that many 01s are there too and some of the 02s are going to play up.

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Re: Age Pure Projections

Post by Yellowcard on Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:51 pm

ENERGYFC04 wrote:Tryouts will be interesting.  The hardest part for coaches dealing with these changes is there are unfamiliar kids and thus trying to extrapolate how they do against bigger or smaller kids.

Furthermore, kids in the 04 age group go through peaks and valleys.  Coaches who know the kids and/or well formed teams that have chemistry are more willing to accept these peaks and valleys and really know the baseline.  However, when placed with a new coach with new players coaches may not realize, know and/or be willing to accept valleys.  

On a serious note, what if a 12 year old girl is menstruating for the first or second time during tryouts.   This can have a profound psychological and/or physical impact on the kid.   Will the coach know their ability or will biology kick them off that team.


We don't speak of that here on the forums!! Come on... Everyone knows that's why the 04 teams are so good! They haven't had to deal with that stuff yet! Just wait for the emotional roller coaster ride as they move up over the next couple years!
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Re: Age Pure Projections

Post by Yellowcard on Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:54 pm

Pass and Move wrote:Rhein has 4 01s and Schwartz Gold has 6. I don't know of an exact count on the ECNL group, but understand that many 01s are there too and some of the 02s are going to play up.

Ok I thought there were more on Rhein's 02 team... Remember that with the Composite ECNL teams coming there are going to be more spots available for players that are on the cusp of being good enough for ECNL but not having enough spots as we have had before...
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Re: Age Pure Projections

Post by bird04 on Wed Apr 27, 2016 10:50 pm

Yellowcard wrote:Here Bird goes again with his bold letters!  It is the case with some teams...  Beattie has a ton of 02s on his 03 team.  But it's not always like that.  Like Bird said Griffin has a split down the middle of 03/04 and their best players are 04s... I think Banham and Williams have more 03s and Rhein and Schwarz have a good mix of 01/02.  The more I have looked into it I see it's strictly dependent on the kid...

MORE BOLD LETTERS! Razz I agree with the first part of your statement, but disagree with the last. I think the average ability level within the Griffin team is pretty evenly distributed between age groups, different levels within each age group (as with any group of people) with a tight distribution, to boot.... Just wanted to clarify that I was the author of the first part of that statement and not the second part...And, again, we'll disagree on this as we have in the past, but you think its (see the new, improved, italicized version of highlighting!) almost all individual kid dependent and I think that chemistry comes in as a factor too, though not by any means the dominant decision variable. All in all, completely understandable on both our parts given the teams our kids play on currently. No biggie and all will soon be revealed! Very Happy

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Re: Age Pure Projections

Post by Yellowcard on Wed Apr 27, 2016 11:59 pm

Nothing will ever be revealed...  It just so happens the Griffin team has a whole group of strictly depends the on the kids...  Hence why the 04s are better than the 03s on that team.  Beattie has 03s that are as good as the 02s or better and every other team does too!  That's what I was trying to say!  Don't act like there aren't holes on the Griffin team!  I have heard the top player on that team is an 04?
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Re: Age Pure Projections

Post by bird04 on Thu Apr 28, 2016 2:33 am

Uh, that's kinda what I was saying...some 03's better than 04's and vice versa on Griffin...don't really think we have a "top" player, 03 or 04...and I would pretty much bet most people would agree. Again, a normal, tight distribution of talent. Not a great amount of talent difference in terms of range from our our "lowest" to our "highest" (how that is ever determined is beyond me...LOTS of day to day and month to month variability as far as how an individual girl plays over time...mine included) In any given game, different girls show and make a difference and others not as much. Next game, a different set of girls make the difference. Another game, a whole other set of girls...Can't really identify "holes" and I'm sure you've heard a lot of things...the question is, how does what you've heard comport with reality? And all will be revealed, soon, vis a vis the overall topic of this thread in that the ECNL 03 choices will be made... and I define soon as early May!

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Re: Age Pure Projections

Post by Yellowcard on Thu Apr 28, 2016 3:13 am

If you are picking the teams then you won't be disappointed. But you aren't and while you think you know who is going to make what team you really have no clue. I assume you stay PC because you don't want to disappoint the other parents on the forum. The best part about me is that I can freely speak the truth because I'm not worried about what people think. The original topic had nothing to do with ECNL other than generalities. Nothing will be revealed because no matter what the verdict is the teams will never be 100% to anyone's liking. Probably not even 50%. I heard the the top player on Griffin is an 04 by many. Usually many>few. Who knows? Maybe I'm picking the teams!
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Re: Age Pure Projections

Post by The Soccer 1% on Thu Apr 28, 2016 1:46 pm

I've watched Griffin play. They all looked like the top player on that team.

These teams need to be broken up by talent and kids shouldn't be playing up. If a coach can't start in Jun with a top notch group of '03's or '04's out of that TSC pool and grow them to have the kind of chemistry that they need then they need to fire those coach. They're going to have something that there's not a lot of...speed, aggression, instincts. They'll figure out the working together part when they're beating the crap out of my kid at soccer city. I'm not a huge fan of the TSC model for the betterment of soccer in the region. But, they have very good coaches for those groups. They'll figure it out.

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Re: Age Pure Projections

Post by ENERGYFC04 on Thu Apr 28, 2016 3:22 pm

This Griffin love is almost unpalatable. You would think from this board the US national coaches should probably forego recruiting anywhere in the nation and focus all their activities in Tulsa.

Now for some truth! Does Griffin have some good players? Yes. Do they have the 10 - 14 best players in the state? No. Do they have a 10 - 14 girls that would make a player pool of the top 40 kids in the state? Yes. Are they the best TEAM in the state currently? Yes.

This is how this works. I've seen kids from Griffin and other top teams throughout age brackets go and play on other teams and they look very average. Often times, especially at these young ages, the sum is greater than the parts. In this instance, Griffin has more kids that are probably serious about soccer and due to the size of the club, if your not serious your gone. So, as a team they are more effective than some smaller clubs whose 10 - 14 maybe aren't quite as advanced. I like what Blitz parents used to describe
what their coach has been forced to integrate this year.

Why is Griffin probably the top team in the state this year? Its not because of their top players but most likely because of players 10 – 15 aka depth.

Will the Griffin players remain top players from now to eternity? Probably not. You can recruit and advocate that they will but the truth is size and speed will equal out. Boys will come into the picture. Puberty is hitting. Other sports may invade.

Patience! It’s a marathon not a sprint.



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Re: Age Pure Projections

Post by The Soccer 1% on Thu Apr 28, 2016 3:26 pm

I've not studied them or watched them with a critical eye (I don't really have one). But, does their year playing substandard competition in OCL and Silver hurt their development?

The only kid that stood out to me was the one slinging corner kicks across the goal like she was teaching it.

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Re: Age Pure Projections

Post by ENERGYFC04 on Thu Apr 28, 2016 3:29 pm

The Soccer 1% wrote:I've not studied them or watched them with a critical eye (I don't really have one).  But, does their year playing substandard competition in OCL and Silver hurt their development?

The only kid that stood out to me was the one slinging corner kicks across the goal like she was teaching it.

Who knows. I can't see how playing substandard competition is going to help you. That said, as i mentioned having the depth they have should help making competitive practices.

You bring up a good point. The kid slinging corner kicks stands out. No offense, that is the problem with 90% of soccer parents is that we lack a critical eye for what is good soccer. We think a kid who can sling a corner or boot it from 40 is a great player and he or she stands out. We don't see the other 90% of the game where the coach is trying to hide that kid and/or they are failing the team. I hate the idea of "specialty" players at this age and bringing them up based upon one skill is a disservice to the player in the long run.

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Re: Age Pure Projections

Post by bird04 on Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:05 pm

There are a number of girls on our team that are good at corner kicks, maybe one that takes the corner more often, but 4 total regular "corner kickers" that come to mind right off the bat...none of which is a specialty player by any means nor someone that the coach would "hide" nor someone who is "failing the team". They all are quite good in the other general areas of the game. It has been remarked on this board before that the players on Griffin are moved in and out of their normal position quite a bit to develop that "utility" ability. So I don't think ENERGY's concern about our coaches' style or means is warranted. I really mean it and am not being "PC" when I say the range of abilities is pretty tight on this team, so when you are speaking "depth", it's not like the players coming off the bench are slouches! Of course, like all here, I am biased when it comes to our girls. So I could be way off base and self-deluding...

I do agree with The Soccer 1% that the level of competition we have played over the last year has some of us worried. That could end up biting us. Shout out to Stump 03, however, as I think that they have improved tremendously and should do better than people expect in State Cup. Played them the other night and they are a different team than I've seen in the past.

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