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TSC VS BLITZ

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TSC VS BLITZ

Post by 918soccer on Tue Dec 29, 2015 2:12 am

I believe competition is good for organizations and I personally would like to see more competitive soccer clubs in Tulsa. Having said that, my daughter has played at both clubs and It appears to me that Blitz is holding on by a thread. Their management and organization is week, the competition soft (particularly for girls age 10+) and they have lost most of their best players, teams and coaches to TSC. I would love for Tulsa to have 2 or 3 strong competitive clubs in Tulsa and I am curious if the active posters on this forum think that will ever happen.

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Re: TSC VS BLITZ

Post by Gatorade95 on Tue Dec 29, 2015 4:47 pm

I would like to see TSC and Blitz merge and create a super club like OFC. Then we would need coaches who believe in a true tiered system and not having their own coaching agenda. Kids of like abilities should be together on the same teams. Parents need to accept the fact that some kids are not best suited on the top teams. Sometimes kids need to fail and learn lessons. We can't keep saving them all the time. With that being said, I agree Blitz is hanging on by a thread. I think the last good teams they will have will be the pure age 05s girls and boys.

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Re: TSC VS BLITZ

Post by trev06 on Tue Dec 29, 2015 10:11 pm

There is bound to be some merging or shuffling of teams and coaches due to this true age change, but I cannot foresee a day when TSC and Blitz would ever merge. I think that is the one club Blitz would never allow to buy them out. I have one kid at both clubs. For me, it's all about the coach and does my kid respond to them.

As for the Academy age competition, I think TSC's in house league works well at the younger ages, but once you are one of the top teams in the oldest age group you run out of teams to play. At least at Blitz you get to play the top teams from all the other Academies in the region even though TSC won't participate. Either way when you are a top team in U10 and need to play U11 competitive teams you kind of get a raw deal because it is hard to get them to play you.

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Re: TSC VS BLITZ

Post by Roughneck04 on Thu Dec 31, 2015 7:53 pm

918soccer, I'm really confused by the tone of your post. It sounds very anti-Blitz, but in previous posts you also bash TSC for their treatment of Kepley. So why would you want these two clubs to merge since you appear to not like either one?

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Re: TSC VS BLITZ

Post by Number6 on Sat Jan 02, 2016 3:15 am

Their academy system seems to work at blitz. They seem to always have the top team coming out every year over tsc. Then Tsc hires them away for competitive. Don't they have the top 06 teams again this year? I know they had top 05 boys and top 04 boys, then hired coaches over to Tsc. If Tsc ends up getting their kids for competitive. What good would a merger be?

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Re: TSC VS BLITZ

Post by 918soccer on Sat Jan 02, 2016 5:16 pm

I'm not anti-blitz Roughneck04, I would love for that club and other clubs to strengthen their organization, increase their numbers and figure out how to stop loosing good players and coaches to TSC. To do that, Blitz has to figure out how to get high quality teams to play and scrimmage weak in and weak out. When 06 Kepley moved to blitz, they went from a situation of always having good teams to play and scrimmage to having very few. We went 3 weeks in the middle of the season without a single game or scrimmage. We went from being a top regional team to loosing to teams that we should have and would have beat the season before, including a TSC team that noticeably passed us in one season. I don't think it was because of better coaching, I think it was because they had better teams to play and scrimmage weak in and weak out and didn't have a 3 week downtime. This is an issue that Blitz has to address, especially for girls, and why I think 2 or 3 strong competitive clubs in Tulsa would make us more competitive regionally.

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Re: TSC VS BLITZ

Post by Gatorade95 on Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:32 pm

Truth is they will never merge. Both clubs are run completely different at the top and I don't see the Blitz owners giving up their slice of the pie every month to merge with TSCH. Too bad OFC can't open a satellite club in Tulsa. My understanding of OFC, their club is run completely different than TSCH and Blitz. I think the top coaches would leave each club if they had some where to go.

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Re: TSC VS BLITZ

Post by trev06 on Thu Jan 07, 2016 8:20 pm

In regards to the TSC team that supposedly passed Kepley 06, they are a U11 team and played in the competitive league. In my opinion, that is the reason they had better competition to play. Kepley 06 would have loved to play up in U11 as a competitive team, but OSA rules do not allow U10 teams. That made a difference in level of play between the two teams this season, but I really disagree with saying that is the fault of Blitz because that scenario would have played out the same way at either club. It's just what happens to the top U10 team in the oldest age bracket of Academy. You try to make up for it by playing up in tournaments and scrimmaging older teams, but it is not so easy to get coaches to voluntarily play the top team in the age group below them.

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Re: TSC VS BLITZ

Post by 918soccer on Mon Apr 04, 2016 5:57 am

Completely agree trev. The level of competition that teams play (and practice with and scrimmage) make a huge difference. I think that's one of the main reasons TSC girls teams develop faster. They have more good teams to play week in and week out. 04 blitz is a great example. 2 years ago they were a very competitive team to the top 04 TSC team, even beating them once or twice, but today the developmental gap is significant - you can see both team's results from the 2016 Emerald Cup. Both 04 teams have not developed at the same pace and I believe that has a lot to do with the JR ECNL program at TSC and the quality of coaches, multi-coach group training, high-quality girls teams to scrimmage, and JR ECNL competition. Do not believe the Blitz line that ECNL has little benefit. If your child has an opportunity to get into this program, do it! It is the fastest and most complete player development in Tulsa.

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Re: TSC VS BLITZ

Post by Rico S on Wed Apr 06, 2016 8:52 pm

918soccer wrote:Completely agree trev. The level of competition that teams play (and practice with and scrimmage) make a huge difference. I think that's one of the main reasons TSC girls teams develop faster. They have more good teams to play week in and week out. 04 blitz is a great example.  2 years ago they were a very competitive team to the top 04 TSC team, even beating them once or twice, but today the developmental gap is significant - you can see both team's results from the 2016 Emerald Cup. Both 04 teams have not developed at the same pace and I believe that has a lot to do with the  JR ECNL program at TSC and the quality of coaches, multi-coach group training, high-quality girls teams to scrimmage, and JR ECNL competition. Do not believe the Blitz line that ECNL has little benefit. If your child has an opportunity to get into this program, do it! It is the fastest and most complete player development in Tulsa.

While there is some truth the your contention that JR ECNL has provided a developmental edge for TSC over Blitz, the biggest reason for a Blitz 04 not keeping pace with TSC 04 Griffin is because Blitz lost several solid players to both Griffin and Parker at the beginning of the year, and Blitz not having feeder teams to fill back up.  While Robbie has tons of issues as a coach (and more as an administrator), there is no way Griffin is a better developmental coach....just look at his record.  His and Parker's work with the 00 group speaks for itself, and the incredible slide of his 02 squad who couldn't even hold a SRPL spot for TSC is comical.  Frankly, I was surprised the usually vocal TSC 04 Kitterman parents didn't revolt when Griffin was named head coach.  Robbie seems to do a good job developing good teams/players, but his problem seems to be holding on to good teams/players (04 girls, 01 boys, etc)

Yes, TSC does have some developmental advantages b/c of ECNL and the sheer size of the club, but with specifically the Blitz 04 team, that is not why there is a bigger gap between the teams this year and last.

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Re: TSC VS BLITZ

Post by 918soccer on Wed Apr 06, 2016 11:02 pm

Good points Rico. I didn't mean to suggest that I thought Griffin was better than Robbie. I don't see that as being a big factor why TSC girls seem to develop faster at this age. Instead, I think it has more to do with their group coaching where the girls learn from several coaches including ECNL coaches. Every coach has different strengths and I have seen excelerated development having my 04 trained by different coaches. I think there is also a benefit from having so many strong girls teams within the club to frequently scrimmage. Blitz does not have this and I have seen 05 girls at TSC develop much faster because of it in just one season. I have had an opportunity to see the difference in development first hand and whatever the reason it is a considerable difference.

I should also point out that 04 Blitz also received their best player during this time so I don't see the moving of players as a major factor in slower development. I think it has more to do with group coaching and frequent quality scrimmages.

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Re: TSC VS BLITZ

Post by 918soccer on Thu Apr 07, 2016 3:04 am

Tonight 05 Carreno scrimmaged 03 Sharp. I don't think it was planned but both teams were practicing on the same field and the coaches decided to scrimmage. This happens frequently at TSC and I think it really helps accelerate player development, especially for the younger teams. If anyone was wondering, it was only about 20 minutes and it ended in a 1-1 tie.

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Re: TSC VS BLITZ

Post by ENERGYFC04 on Fri Apr 08, 2016 1:44 pm

According to US Soccer "scrimmage time" is irrelevant as it pertains to development. That is why the DA forces much more practice time and lessens game time. You want to argue TSC vs Blitz i think the argument simply comes down to numbers. In the end numbers typically win. I think if one looks historically, the top teams from both sides of the state typically become littered with kids from other clubs by u15.

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Re: TSC VS BLITZ

Post by 918soccer on Fri Apr 08, 2016 2:25 pm

I wasn't aware that DA reduced the number of scrimmages and games. This would certainly be one of the big differences between DA and ECNL. I don't know that I agree that scrimmages are irrelevant. Without them or some type of field play before games, teams can come out flat. I think that's probably one of the reasons national teams have so many warm up friendlies prior to big competitions. I would agree that the quality of the scrimmage opponent is more important than the quantity but I think any field time improves field play.

There is no question that TSC has numbers but that doesn't explain why the second and third teams at TSC are catching and in many cases passing the first teams at Blitz. I don't just see the top teams at TSC developing faster, I see this with all of the teams. My 05 just moved to TSC after a year at blitz and during that the TSC girls developed much faster. My daughter is now playing catch-up but she is catching up because of the reasons I mentioned above. The rate of development at TSC for girls this age amazing.

I am not a diehard TSC fan, in fact far from it, but even the most hard-core blitz parents begin to see the difference in girls development at this age.

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Re: TSC VS BLITZ

Post by 918soccer on Fri Apr 08, 2016 2:43 pm

After writing my last post I thought of another reason that might explain the accelerated development at TSC at this age. This might be the age where girls start to work Arden and fight to make the JR ECNL and ECNL teams. Perhaps that is why players on the 2nd, 3rd and even 4th teams at TSC all seem to improve so quickly - they are trying to make ECNL and Blitz players aren't.?.?

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Re: TSC VS BLITZ

Post by yoyokix on Fri Apr 08, 2016 2:58 pm

918soccer wrote: After writing my  last post I thought of another reason that might explain the accelerated development at TSC at this age.  This might be the age where girls start to work Arden and fight to make the JR ECNL and ECNL teams. Perhaps that is why players on the 2nd, 3rd and even 4th teams at TSC all seem to improve so quickly - they are trying to make ECNL and Blitz players aren't.?.?

This is a great point, I totally agree.

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Re: TSC VS BLITZ

Post by bird04 on Fri Apr 08, 2016 3:58 pm

918soccer wrote: After writing my  last post I thought of another reason that might explain the accelerated development at TSC at this age.  This might be the age where girls start to work Arden and fight to make the JR ECNL and ECNL teams. Perhaps that is why players on the 2nd, 3rd and even 4th teams at TSC all seem to improve so quickly - they are trying to make ECNL and Blitz players aren't.?.?

Probably a big factor, but somewhat illogical for a lot of parents/players. Unfortunately, there are only so many ECNL slots to go around. Most girls won't even have a chance, when looking at all the girls in any given age group. The second team at TSC typically fields a quite good team (in some years, better than the ECNL team!), but after that, your third and fourth tier teams typically (not always!) drop off dramatically in terms of quality, with a few very good or potentially very good players "trapped" there. One of the factors in player development is what caliber of player the girl practices with week in/week out....If you are stuck on one of these older teams, hoping/wishing to make the ECNL squad 2-3 years down the road, those are long odds to bet your daughter's development on...The better option in those cases (IMHO) would be to go to Blitz for a year or two and develop among, on average, better players than your 3rd or 4th level teams at TSC. Then develop into a top flight player and try to make ECNL. However, this rarely happens as girls don't jump around as much as boys and parents often have their own reasons/agenda/prejudices involved in the decision. But for those who have made this jump when in this position, I've seen it work out quite well for the girls involved. For it to really work, 3-4 good girls per age group would have to do it.

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Re: TSC VS BLITZ

Post by The Soccer 1% on Fri Apr 15, 2016 6:49 pm

I think all of this goes back to why we're doing what we're doing. If the goal is to develop the top level talent for OK to compete nationally, the ever growing corporate model is the best. Personally, I think soccer was healthier in the region when Thunder, Nationals, Hurricanes, TSC, Blitz, NEO, WSA, Sheffield, etc. all had teams playing in the same leagues. Were the best teams as successful nationally? I don't know. They probably were. I remember seeing Hurricane, WSA, Nationals, etc. all with nationally ranked teams. Now the best teams in Tulsa are typically the top 2-3 teams in TSC. That's fine but the TSC teams don't seem to be happy with that and can't fight off the urge to keep growing. The Blitz/TSC crap is tiresome to those of us trying to grow soccer in places outside of Tulsa.

That said, I giggled when I heard that Blitz lost access to their fields. It couldn't have happened to a more deserving outfit.

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Re: TSC VS BLITZ

Post by Rainbow on Fri Apr 15, 2016 7:16 pm

I agree... right now it is almost a monopoly. I think that hurts development. I am sure it is nice to have 80%+ of the talent under one club so that you can form that team at the correct age to go compete nationally but....

Do the 2nd and 3rd+ team coaches still have the drive to develop their players to eventually become the top team when what happens is the top team can take the your top players at any time...

Does the 1st team develop bad habits of not playing at their full ability because in reality they do not have to very often when playing in state games...

Does TSCH have enough a player development methodology to overcome the short coming of holding a majority of the talent under one roof... and even in the age groups they do not have it currently by ECNL or at least the 2nd year of ECNL they bring in the team (ie 98s and 99s)... then what those teams have the same issue... they can play at 80% of their ability and still will all or most of their instate games. They might drop a game because they are over confident and then destroy the next team they play and then go back to playing just good enough to win....

If a majority of the talent is going to be under one roof should they wait until U13 to really form teams and instead keep their groupings more in player pools and continue to play with rosters. This would make more games competitive. You loose out on building the team chemistry thing but you can use U13 & U14 to start working on that... Results do not really matter much until U13ish at the earliest and that is more so to ensure you can be in the top leagues (TSCH has ECNL but USYS National League for non-ECNL teams... you do not really see many coaches at the SRPL level anymore... ) and get in the top tournaments in the top brackets for freshman, sophomore and Jr years....

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Re: TSC VS BLITZ

Post by TSCSOCCERDAD on Tue Apr 19, 2016 5:02 pm

Rico S wrote:
918soccer wrote:Completely agree trev. The level of competition that teams play (and practice with and scrimmage) make a huge difference. I think that's one of the main reasons TSC girls teams develop faster. They have more good teams to play week in and week out. 04 blitz is a great example.  2 years ago they were a very competitive team to the top 04 TSC team, even beating them once or twice, but today the developmental gap is significant - you can see both team's results from the 2016 Emerald Cup. Both 04 teams have not developed at the same pace and I believe that has a lot to do with the  JR ECNL program at TSC and the quality of coaches, multi-coach group training, high-quality girls teams to scrimmage, and JR ECNL competition. Do not believe the Blitz line that ECNL has little benefit. If your child has an opportunity to get into this program, do it! It is the fastest and most complete player development in Tulsa.

While there is some truth the your contention that JR ECNL has provided a developmental edge for TSC over Blitz, the biggest reason for a Blitz 04 not keeping pace with TSC 04 Griffin is because Blitz lost several solid players to both Griffin and Parker at the beginning of the year, and Blitz not having feeder teams to fill back up.  While Robbie has tons of issues as a coach (and more as an administrator), there is no way Griffin is a better developmental coach....just look at his record.  His and Parker's work with the 00 group speaks for itself, and the incredible slide of his 02 squad who couldn't even hold a SRPL spot for TSC is comical.  Frankly, I was surprised the usually vocal TSC 04 Kitterman parents didn't revolt when Griffin was named head coach.  Robbie seems to do a good job developing good teams/players, but his problem seems to be holding on to good teams/players (04 girls, 01 boys, etc)

Yes, TSC does have some developmental advantages b/c of ECNL and the sheer size of the club, but with specifically the Blitz 04 team, that is not why there is a bigger gap between the teams this year and last.
I agree that Robbie is a good coach and an excellent trainer, but am scratching my head at the record part. What record is that? I can only think of one state cup win and that was 8v8. If you have a DD and she is any good you need to get her into the ECNL. I was as skepitcal and anti big TSC as anyone, but the ECNL is the best option for female players that have the potential to play at the next level and beyond.

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Re: TSC VS BLITZ

Post by The Soccer 1% on Wed Apr 20, 2016 2:43 pm

918soccer wrote: After writing my  last post I thought of another reason that might explain the accelerated development at TSC at this age.  This might be the age where girls start to work Arden and fight to make the JR ECNL and ECNL teams. Perhaps that is why players on the 2nd, 3rd and even 4th teams at TSC all seem to improve so quickly - they are trying to make ECNL and Blitz players aren't.?.?
From the outside (not Blitz/not TSC) looking in, TSC has more speed than anyone else. That combined with strong instincts and great first touch are the differences from what I've seen. I don't know that they teach speed but they have it - that could be talented/fast players coming to TSC. Also, from my friends kids, the TSC kids spend a lot more nights per week and weeks per year training than anyone else. I don't think a high level TSC soccer kid can really do another sport or activity.

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Re: TSC VS BLITZ

Post by TSCSOCCERDAD on Wed Apr 20, 2016 5:06 pm

I think from the girls perspective the TSC VS BLITZ is a one sided affair. Once you get into ECNL, all the thoughts of other non-ECNL clubs goes out the window. Just look at the north texas soccer blog. There aren't any ECNL parents on that site talking about the classic league or who is better. Blitz club and their parents and TSC and their parents are looking from totally diff. perspectives (I've been on both sides). The boys is different because TSC and Blitz are in the same boat.

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Re: TSC VS BLITZ

Post by The Soccer 1% on Wed Apr 20, 2016 5:22 pm

Can you clarify why boys/girls are different on this issue? I'm kind of new to some of these intricacies.

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Re: TSC VS BLITZ

Post by TSCSOCCERDAD on Wed Apr 20, 2016 7:25 pm

TSC has ECNL. The boys sides are still in OPL and SRPL, so the comparisons are still valid in the context of TSC VS Blitz. Whenever you play a ECNL event you know you're playing against that clubs top 15-18 girls and you're doing it EVERY game. Most of the girls are going to play soccer in college with most going to DI and some with national team interest. Most ECNL girls haven't played a blitz team in years or another OK team for that matter. If your DD has shown interest in playing soccer in college, she can quickly guage whether she could or not by playing in the ECNL.

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Re: TSC VS BLITZ

Post by The Soccer 1% on Fri Apr 22, 2016 7:04 pm

Why is it for the girls only?

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Re: TSC VS BLITZ

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