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Fall OCL schedule

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Fall OCL schedule

Post by t-town05 on Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:44 am

Did top Nysa team decide to play 8v8?
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Re: Fall OCL schedule

Post by 04Bonosfan on Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:20 pm

It looks like they stayed with the rest. Only appears OFC and Tulsa went to the 11x11
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Re: Fall OCL schedule

Post by cosmos04 on Thu Aug 13, 2015 2:04 am

It's smart to do so, they can play lesser competition and win there league and have a free pass to gold when they go u12. Taking a Paige from there 04 group:)

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Re: Fall OCL schedule

Post by Gunners006 on Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:57 pm

Or they just better with soccer touches and learn the game better!!

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Re: Fall OCL schedule

Post by ENERGYFC04 on Thu Aug 13, 2015 9:25 pm

Gunners006 wrote:Or they just better with soccer touches and learn the game better!!
I'm curious how do you think 8 v. 8 helps with touches and learning the game better?

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Re: Fall OCL schedule

Post by t-town05 on Thu Aug 13, 2015 9:44 pm

Advantages of 8-on-8 Soccer
The 8-on-8 soccer game better matches 12-and 13-year-old players than the official 11-on-11 competition in several areas:
1. Each player touches the ball more often and is therefore more involved in the game. This more intensive participation not only enhances technical and tactical learning but also allows the youth coach to collect more precise information about the performance of each player as well as of his whole team as a unit.
2. Although the parameters of space and time are almost exactly the same (290 square meters per player or 300 square meters per play) as in the 11-on-11 game, the 8-on-8 game assures better learning (and facilitates a smooth transition to regular play) because there are only 16 players in the field. With fewer players on the field, the basic game situations appear more frequently, but they confront the young player with less complex problems than in the full game. The players therefore can feel more capable, which results in self-confidence and, at the same time, greater motivation to learn even more.
3. Playing with the No. 4 ball size allows youngsters to reach any player on the field with a pass (something that is impossible to find with their playing on the full field with the official ball). This aspect stimulates their perception skills. Besides, the size and weight of the ball are in perfect harmony with the level of speed and power of these players (especially true for the girls). With the ball tailored to their physical and mental capacities, better results occur in the acquiring and consolidating the most important techniques. This can’t happen when youth compete in the traditional game with the official ball, therefore having fewer chances at the ball because of the excessive numbers of players on each team. The 8-on-8 competition therefore helps young players to develop correct habits for latter use in the 11-on-11 game. There is no question that it’s much easier to integrate a player successfully into the full game after she or he has been exposed to two years of simpler problems in the 8-on-8 game.
4. All young goalkeepers between 12 and 14 years prefer to play 8-on-8 soccer instead of the full game. Why? Like their teammates they, too, have the opportunity to play the ball more often because fewer players are involved in the game and because the ball approaches the vicinity of the goals more often. Therefore, they gain more experience in less time. And the size of the goal is perfectly tailored to their height.
5. With the ball more often played close to the goal, the forwards and defenders also gain valuable experiences in the most decisive parts of the field—where any mistake or successful action can modify the result of the game. In 8-on-8 soccer they learn to deal with stressful situations and to take offensive and defensive rebounds.
6. With only eight players on a team, the game has fewer interruptions with the ball in play more time.
7. There is no physical overloading of any player because the coach may change a player as frequently and as often as he considers wise. “Rolling substitution” improves the team spirit and at the same time develops more versatile players who are capable of playing well in different positions. Due to the shorter distances in 8-on-8, there are less stimuli for anaerobic resistance, which at this stage of the development of the player has to be considered positive. Despite the poor level of explosive power, the No. 4 ball can be passed to any player in any part of the field, thus stimulating development of the perceptive capacities.
8. The job of the youth coach, who generally is not very experienced, is much easier. He or she learns under simpler conditions (fewer players but more ball contacts, less complex game situations) to analyze the player’s performance and the team as a whole, as well as how to facilitate programming the contents for the next training sessions. The greater facility in analysis makes it easier to find appropriate solutions to problems.
9. What is valid for the coach is valid also for the referee. Putting a logical progression of youth competitions into practice will also, without doubt, benefit the level of umpiring in the long term. Like the coach and his or her young players, young referees also grow slowly—by facing increasingly difficult and complex problems—onto the full game, ensuring that they feel capable at each stage of their referee development.
10. Spectators, especially parents, really enjoy watching an 8-on-8 game more than the traditional one because it’s easier to follow. Because there are more goal opportunities for both teams, it’s more exciting. Moreover, because of the larger penalty areas between the centerlines and the 16.5-meter line of the full field (almost 40 meters deep and 55 meters wide), fair play must be practiced to not give away penalties to the opponents. That is why far fewer injuries occur when rules of 8-on-8 soccer are applied. Last but not least, the parents see their daughters and sons in possession of the ball more frequently; they see more
successful interventions than in the full game—and more possibilities of scoring.”4
The U12 age is a fertile learning period. Players at this age can be expected to be more thoughtful in meeting the demands of the game. Small-sided games generate more opportunities for problem solving for the players to work out together. Hence “teamwork” is promoted!
The benefits of 8 a-side soccer for these children far outweigh any logistics or administrative problems created for the adults. Our challenge is to find solutions!
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Re: Fall OCL schedule

Post by ENERGYFC04 on Thu Aug 13, 2015 9:48 pm

T-Town. I disagree with that article. Thats the company line but its not reality. True, 8 v 8 is better for most teams at this age but we should pigeon hole development for the better teams and players.

This whole 8 v. 8 promotes better touches and helps kids learn the game better is intellectually dishonest in my opinion. People can convince themselves of anything but at the end of the day one only needs to look at it objectively to see that's true. The numbers tell a different story. Touches and learning is brought through practice not games. Further, the decision should be based team to team and what the coaches view is best developmentally for that group of players.

Take for example in the 04 age group. People promoting NYSA and TSC Amos offer the argument that the coaches made a “developmental” choice. Again, look at Rother and Amos’ choice with their 03s. They were playing 11 v. 11 at U10.

The touches argument is blown away by the fact that practice, not games is where touches and technique is developed. The best way to improve touches and technique is through constant repetition and high volume of contact with the ball. Games provide very limited technical benefits since players don’t get many touches of the ball. When you have 16 -22 players sharing one ball, each player only gets on average 20-40 ball touches per game. In fact, depending on position and amount of minutes played, some players only touch the ball 10-20 times per game.

By comparison, in a well-structured practice that is geared towards technical development, players would typically touch the ball hundreds of times in one single practice. By keeping the player-to-ball ratio small (1:1 through 4:1) and using small-sided games, each player would easily accomplish 200-400 touches, and often even more, in a 90 minute practice session.

As to “learning the game better”. Not sure how one can argue this as well as a quality practice will be more effective at teaching the tactical principles than a game. Games improve team cohesion and teach players functional roles. But since cohesion and functional roles are to a large extent team-specific, the long term benefits from games are limited in terms of “learning the game.”

In the end, the real focus and decision on what a team should play should be determined by the ability and the involvement of the players. Is a team capable of keeping all players involved in the 11 v 11 format? This is done by movement of the ball and control that allows possession under pressure.

Teams that have difficulty with technical control (first touch) and controlled movement of the ball need a smaller field and fewer choices. This allows a more focused approach (limited decisions). They should play 8 v 8.

Teams that have superior touch and ball movement need to progress to a challenge that confronts them with more choices. That is the 11v11 game. Such teams; players remain involved in the play even over the expanded distances and read the game, and thereby apply pressure quicker because they anticipate the play.

We should look to our coaches, not have mandates as to 11 v 11 versus 8 v 8. OSA should offer both as some teams are ready for it whereas others are not. We all know, in this state the better teams are ready for 11 v 11 at younger ages whereas the others are not.

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Re: Fall OCL schedule

Post by 04Bonosfan on Fri Aug 14, 2015 3:01 am

Both good points but it all is on the coach and style of play.
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Re: Fall OCL schedule

Post by Jordan Speith on Sun Sep 13, 2015 10:51 pm

Energy--
You said "We all know, in this state the better teams are ready for 11 v 11 at younger ages whereas the others are not"

I think it is fair to say that the 05 Fury team is one of the "better teams" in Oklahoma. Thus, their coach's decision to enter the 8v8 division can't be because they aren't as "ready" for 11v11 as OFC and TSC teams in the same age group. I guess no one can know for sure, but I'm guessing the coach has subscribed to the same development philosophy as US Youth Soccer and the European youth academies. I did a quick search and found some really interesting information about how the European clubs develop their youth. The European Club Association encompasses 214 clubs from 53 associations across Europe. In February 2012 the ECA released a report that included information about the members' youth academies. The statistics on small-sided games are pretty interesting. At the U10-U11 age group, only 1% of the clubs play 11v11. U12-U13 only 52% play 11v11.

In "Our Competition is the World," Stan Baker says "[t]he youth academies in Spain such as Barcelona, Real Madrid and Atletico Madrid play games with player numbers no larger than 7v7 up to 12 years old. The size of the field is smaller and the ball is smaller so that the players can function according to their physical abilities. They have understood that the players are not yet adults."

JS

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Re: Fall OCL schedule

Post by ENERGYFC04 on Sun Sep 13, 2015 11:00 pm

It's hard to argue with a major winner but why not. Riddle me why Nysa coach (same one who coaches the 05s) played his 03s 11 v 11 at U11 if indeed he deems 8v8 more developmentally appropriate?

Could the reason he chose not to this year have more to do with OSA actions this year and his plans not to "play up" next year as both ofc and TSC will not have a chance to play in OPL at their age since they didn't participate in that age group?

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Re: Fall OCL schedule

Post by sooner5 on Sun Sep 13, 2015 11:05 pm

He wasn't the 03 coach at u-11.

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Re: Fall OCL schedule

Post by cosmos04 on Mon Sep 14, 2015 12:21 am

Think he meant 04's coach

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Re: Fall OCL schedule

Post by sooner5 on Mon Sep 14, 2015 12:24 am

Who is he?

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Re: Fall OCL schedule

Post by Jordan Speith on Mon Sep 14, 2015 1:36 am

Cosmos04--He is speaking of the 03's and I am not sure why you continue to want to speak of 04's.



Energy--
Just based on the math of 8v8 vs 11v11 your kid will get somewhere around 30% more touches in a season than if she was playing 11v11. The American way of trying to win (North Texas) by playing 11 v11 at U9 vs 8v8 at u9 is one of the reasons US Soccer has made the changes that they made.

I have actually not read one argument that says kids should be playing 11v11 at u11. If you have one please post so that we can all be enriched.

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Re: Fall OCL schedule

Post by ENERGYFC04 on Mon Sep 14, 2015 1:46 am

Oh the 30% red herring. Lets do math. You play 16 games per year OPL. You play about 20 games in tournaments. Thats 36 games. Now 30% of the 20 - 40 touches you might get during a game equates to 6 - 12 touches more in 8 v 8 per game. So in essence you reason for 8 v 8 is what would be calculated at 216 to 432 touches more for a WHOLE SEASON playing 8 v 8 vs 11 v 11. I can take my daughter in the backyard and have that knocked out in 15 minutes on a slow day. Touches are done in practice.

Listen, i'm not saying 11 v 11 at U11 is for everyone. However, it is for some. I will agree with you on NTX playing it at too young of ages.

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Re: Fall OCL schedule

Post by Jordan Speith on Mon Sep 14, 2015 2:31 am

Energy--love the debate here.

6-12 extra touches with pressure and decisions to be made.
Everyone is playing the backyard games so if its really 6-12 touches which I think its more like 12-25 extra touches, decisions etc.
Now you are discounting extra touches for some reason?
Isn't this discussion about extra touches with decisions to be made?

Please assume all backyard games are equal.

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Re: Fall OCL schedule

Post by Number6 on Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:18 am

I think your both right. Norman gets more touches, and is the overwhelming favorite to win 8v8 state. Energy's probably right in thinking they aren't as deep as Tsc/OFC to consistently have success playing 11s yet so the coach decided to play down. I doubt very seriously most coaches are worried about amount of touches at u11 and above. Good Kids will touches no matter what the side.

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Re: Fall OCL schedule

Post by TSCSOCCERDAD on Tue Sep 15, 2015 2:44 pm

I think the US soccer association run around like chickens with their heads cut off trying to copy the next big European or south American soccer thing. Spain, Germany and Brazil got good by doing it their way. Even the Netherlands created their own style that made them successful. I wish the US would adopt a style and stick to it. Germany aren't flashy and win. Brazil and Spain are flashy and win. US tries to be one thing one year and another the next and always lack. I watched the 8v8 04 boys state championship game and the goalie for blitz would run up from over half to take a free kick to try and score. The goalies could punt over 3/4 of the field. I can see the utility in small side games especially when you get older and have to think and react faster. I prefer to go 11v11 early because that is what NTexas do and that unfortunately is our measuring stick here in OK. If your child is good and you want them seen, then you have to go play where people are watching. Besides, Barca aren't running all over Spain to play 7v7. Man U and Bayern aren't teaching teams how to play like PSG. I think that in the US, especially in the youth level, you have a hodge-podge of style and technique and so-so coaches and every little Jimmy and Jenny get a shot because they're paying for it.

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Re: Fall OCL schedule

Post by Kickin grAss 04 on Tue Sep 15, 2015 5:31 pm

Great point! I totally agree.

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