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OPL Fall Brackets U12

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Re: OPL Fall Brackets U12

Post by rainbow1968 on Sat Jul 04, 2015 2:55 pm

Then complain about the rule change and don't put down other teams that could benefit from the experience of playing stronger teams and stop making excuses for your results. I doubt all of the teams had their starters for every game or maybe an impact player had an off game. It happens at the pro level so surely it happens with 11 year olds. I wish they would've published this list before tryouts. I bet it would've impacted how some teams formed and I think OSA has changed the rules almost every year. It's kind of like Big Brother... "Expect the unexpected".... In 2 years they will Prob bring back the fan favorite of self selecting your league.....

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Re: OPL Fall Brackets U12

Post by Blameitontheref on Sat Jul 04, 2015 3:03 pm

To apply common sense to this, (something OSA likely won't do), the automatic bids for fall U12 gold should be:
1. Griffin (obvious 1 seed, clear #1, got even stronger at tryouts)
2. Parker (clearly #2 team in state based on last year's OPL games and state cup. Lots of roster changes, but retained a VERY strong group at their core)
3. OFC (Top team in west, only gonna get better)
4. Blitz (Earned the spot based on results. Time will tell if roster is still strong enough to stay in gold)
5. Southlakes (same reason as Blitz)

Teams on the outside and why:
Norman: Top team from 8v8, but needs to show their stuff at 11v11 and win their way into Gold. Their claim to fame is probably the tie against Winters and win against Arsenal in tournament play, but it sounds like their roster may be way different for league play than what it was in those tournament wins. Should be the first team that sneaks in if Griffin plays up though.

Amos: They just promoted several of their best kids to Parker. This is clearly intended as a feeder team in TSC's hierarchy, and is being managed as such. (Very good team though.... TSC has a ridiculous amount of talent at this age group). They probably wouldn't win many (if any) games in gold. This team should be playing silver level, competing against TSC Harding and giving their kids a chance to improve and work up to the higher teams. Not playing in gold, getting beat up on by the kids that just beat them in tryouts.

Arsenal: Well coached team, did an admirable job in gold last year, won the games they should have won and competed fairly well against top teams establishing themselves as a strong 2nd tier team, but being a small town club just didn't have the athletes to keep up with top tier. Will have great competition in silver and should win a bunch of games. But playing in gold again would be a disaster. There won't be any Blitz Navy's or Clintons this year, and a team this good doesn't need to go winless.

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Re: OPL Fall Brackets U12

Post by cosmos04 on Sat Jul 04, 2015 5:05 pm

Rainbow- u think the third and fourth place team in 8v8 deserves a shot in gold and Slsc does not?

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Re: OPL Fall Brackets U12

Post by rainbow1968 on Sat Jul 04, 2015 5:14 pm

Not what I said... I said SLSC had their turn and didn't get the results so someone else should get a shot. It is that spot where teams typically bounce back and forth. I do wish that of this is what OSA was going to do that they would have published it before tryouts. Teams would've formed differently.

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Re: OPL Fall Brackets U12

Post by Blameitontheref on Sat Jul 04, 2015 6:18 pm

If you will remember, OSA put out similar "rules" last year governing "strict" promotion, relegation, etc. They stated that last season only (full year season), teams could decide where they wanted to go (gold or silver). Then, going into this year the bottom 2 in OPL gold would relegate, and the top 2 in silver would promote to gold. I believe they stated the size of OPL gold would be 8 teams this coming year. If they followed that setup as promised, you'd be looking at blitz navy and arsenal being relegated (assuming Clinton doesn't count since they dropped out early) and Norman and Amos moving up.... And very few complaints, other than Amos possibly opting out of gold and allowing the next team to promote. Now maybe the league size of 5 is the better way to divide it to keep it competitive, but if they just did what they promised, no one would have grounds or reason to complain.

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Re: OPL Fall Brackets U12

Post by SSD2004 on Sat Jul 04, 2015 7:06 pm

Blameitontheref wrote:If you will remember, OSA put out similar "rules" last year governing "strict" promotion, relegation, etc. They stated that last season only (full year season), teams could decide where they wanted to go (gold or silver). Then, going into this year the bottom 2 in OPL gold would relegate, and the top 2 in silver would promote to gold. I believe they stated the size of OPL gold would be 8 teams this coming year. If they followed that setup as promised, you'd be looking at blitz navy and arsenal being relegated (assuming Clinton doesn't count since they dropped out early) and Norman and Amos moving up.... And very few complaints, other than Amos possibly opting out of gold and allowing the next team to promote. Now maybe the league size of 5 is the better way to divide it to keep it competitive, but if they just did what they promised, no one would have grounds or reason to complain.

Nailed it! I don't think many people are complaining about giving Amos and Norman a shot....heck the more the merrier; but at the expense of SLSC and one of either Winters/Blitz was not the bill of goods sold at the first of last year. I think that is the real problem....teams were misled. At the same time this stuff unfortunately is getting less and less surprising.

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Re: OPL Fall Brackets U12

Post by populista on Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:12 pm

This ridiculous and unfair decision is causing anarchy on the boys' side as well.

For instance, an 11v11 team is having to "play in" to Gold, while an 8v8 team it has played numerous times, and never lost to, is automatically in?!?

Also, how can you schedule what is arguably a team's most important games of the year on 3 weeks' notice in mid-summer? With summer vacation plans in place, teams will be lucky to be able to field 11-12 players.  How fair (and healthy) is it to ask them to play in mid-summer heat with depleted numbers?!?

OSA should do what they do in any number of other contexts -- do a SEEDING of the teams.  In other words, sit down and decide who are the best 5 teams in the State (based on U11 OPL, State Cup, etc.)?

Instead, they take the lazy way out, and in the process get to punish teams for playing 11v11 last year.  I imagine it's their way of enforcing their belief that 8v8 is developmentally appropriate for U11.


Last edited by populista on Sat Jul 04, 2015 9:31 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: OPL Fall Brackets U12

Post by populista on Sat Jul 04, 2015 9:27 pm

And by the way, SEEDING the Gold Divisions would not be that difficult.  The youthsoccerrankings website is an amazingly sophisticated and accurate tool, based only on game results.  Here's the logical seedings based on youthsoccerrankings Oklahoma State rankngs:

Girls

1 TSC HURRICANE GRIFFIN     29.73
2 OKLAHOMA FC                  28.51
3 TSC HURRICANE PARKER     28.34
4 TULSA UNITED SC BLITZ     28.15
5 SOUTH LAKES SC COSMOS BLUE 26.98

Boys

1 TSC HURRICANE UMELO GOLD 30.62
2 OKLAHOMA FC                        29.84
3 TSC HURRICANE UMELO RED 28.55
4 WEST SIDE ALLIANCE BLACK 28.21
5 TULSA UNITED SC BLITZ NAVY 27.62

Hard to argue with any of that . . . unless you're OSA !!

But forget about teams' actual performance over time; on the GIRLS' side, OSA apparently thinks these teams are solid "GOLD":

7 NORMAN YOUTH SA FURY   26.47
8 TSC HURRICANE AMOS       26.39

. . . and these teams deserve a mid-summer opportunity to play into GOLD:

12 NE OKLAHOMA FC BLUE 25.09
13 UNITY SC WHITE 24.90

And on the BOYS' side, OSA apparently thinks these teams should be able to challenge State Cup semifinalists in mid-summer for their 2015 spots in Gold:

7 TULSA UNITED SC BLITZ BLACK 26.98
12 BIXBY SC HIGHLANDERS BLUE 26.09

Worst decision ever . . . .

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Re: OPL Fall Brackets U12

Post by rainbow1968 on Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:31 am

Here's what cracks me up. Ranking sights are bogus but let's use the numbers.... SLSC is closer to NYSA and Amos than any of the teams in the league. So based on this why is it such a bad decision to see if someone else can do better. My thing has been Parker and Blitz got hosed. I don't think SLSC got that hosed. Look at the numbers and performance over the year.

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Re: OPL Fall Brackets U12

Post by SSD2004 on Sun Jul 05, 2015 1:09 am

rainbow1968 wrote:Here's what cracks me up.  Ranking sights are bogus but let's use the numbers.... SLSC is closer to NYSA and Amos than any of the teams in the league.  So based on this why is it such a bad decision to see if someone else can do better.  My thing has been Parker and Blitz got hosed.  I don't think SLSC got that hosed.  Look at the numbers and performance over the year.

Rainbow - good news for you is I don't think OSA will change what they have done.  They haven't been responsive to teams thus far and I don't see them changing course at this point.  My main concern right now is that they are going to make a "new decision" that locks these groupings in for the year and not just a fall season.  That seems like, based on their history, something they would come up with...

Good luck to your team.  I think you put the over/under bar at at least 2.5 wins to be worthy of Gold status against the elite teams.  You will actually avoid two of them in the fall due to this monumentally dumb decision.  I wonder if you will equal SLSC's output even with that advantage?  It will be interesting to watch.

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Re: OPL Fall Brackets U12

Post by populista on Sun Jul 05, 2015 4:39 am

rainbow1968 wrote:Here's what cracks me up.  Ranking sights are bogus but let's use the numbers....

My opinion exactly . . . until I began to explore youthsoccerrankings.com.  Got Soccer and similar rankings sites simply assign points for certain types of wins, and then rank teams by total points.  All that does is reward teams that play a lot.

By contrast, youthsoccerrankings uses a fairly sophisticated algorithm that pegs a team's ranking movement not just to whether they win/lose, but whether it was a quality or poor win/loss.  In other words, did the team exceed or underperform against the expected outcome.

The "expected" outcome is determined by comparing the ranking ratings.  For example, the current rankings have TSC Griffin at 29.73 and Norman Fury at 26.47.  So the computer expects TSC to win by at least 3 goals against Norman.  If TSC wins 4-0, then it moves up marginally, and Norman moves down slightly.  But if TSC only wins 1-0, it goes down (and Norman moves up) even though TSC won.

I was a skeptic at first, but I've watched the predictive power of that site prove itself over a period of time now.  It's pretty amazing.  Word is spreading; and tournament directors are starting to use it when flighting large tournaments.  The guy who runs it is a soccer dad.

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Re: OPL Fall Brackets U12

Post by rainbow1968 on Sun Jul 05, 2015 7:33 am

It's tough to put that much into goal diff past 3 goals... If you have a 3 goal lead that is a great time to move positions, give some players more game time than normal, adjust your formation, focus on scoring off crosses or work to maintain possession longer. Some teams keep pushing for more goal but at 3-0 you have plenty of room to work on other things that can benefit your team vs worrying about getting a 4th goal so some ranking site might give you points. I know not all teams do that but it seems like some teams might opt to use games like that for opportunities to develop their team. So a 3-0 game could turn into a 3-1 game or stay 3-0 vs just pushing for as many goals as you can score.

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Re: OPL Fall Brackets U12

Post by cosmos04 on Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:42 pm

Are they going to do the same thing in the 03 bracket? They can't do it one way for one age group and another way for another age group.

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Yes they already have, just no play-in

Post by 05GKdad_Tulsa on Sun Jul 05, 2015 1:00 pm

cosmos04 wrote:Are they going to do the same thing in the 03 bracket? They can't do it one way for one age group and another way for another age group.

2015 list
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Re: OPL Fall Brackets U12

Post by cosmos04 on Sun Jul 05, 2015 1:30 pm

Wow that's a load of horse shit. They took the top 5 teams in gold division from last year, makes no sense. I'm not saying Norman or Amous don't deserve a chance at gold but come on keep the rules the same for every age group.

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Re: OPL Fall Brackets U12

Post by sooner5 on Sun Jul 05, 2015 1:42 pm

Comos04- have you seen what OSA is doing for U-11s that elected to play 11s this fall? They have to play up in the u12 OCL. They aren't offering 11s to them in OPL. So me reading into this they really want u-11 to play 8s this year and 9s next year for the 05s.

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Re: OPL Fall Brackets U12

Post by cosmos04 on Sun Jul 05, 2015 1:47 pm

That's why we will never be able to compete with the north Texas teams.

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Re: OPL Fall Brackets U12

Post by 05GKdad_Tulsa on Sun Jul 05, 2015 1:54 pm

My 06 son guest plays sometimes with a Dallas team, so I have a reason to believe them...all the coaches and DOCs down in NTx believe that starting in 2016-2017 season all u11 & u12 will be 9v9.

u9 & u10 will be 7v7. What I like is at least everyone will be on the same # of kids on field. u8 & under will be 5v5.

I always said I would never believed it until it actually happened, but I'm pretty close to believing it.
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Re: OPL Fall Brackets U12

Post by sooner5 on Sun Jul 05, 2015 1:59 pm

That is what I have heard from many sources from several states. So I can see it happening.

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Re: OPL Fall Brackets U12

Post by cosmos04 on Sun Jul 05, 2015 3:22 pm

As long as all states have to abide by the same rules then it's fair. Do I agree, no I think at u-11 is a good age to go 11v11 for development.

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Re: OPL Fall Brackets U12

Post by SSD2004 on Sun Jul 05, 2015 9:34 pm

rainbow1968 wrote:Here's what cracks me up.  Ranking sights are bogus but let's use the numbers.... SLSC is closer to NYSA and Amos than any of the teams in the league.

Not that close:

Plano Labor Day
2nd division Cosmos 3-1-1
3rd division Norman 0-1-2
3rd division Amos 0-1-2

Lexus Cup
1st Division Cosmos 2-0-1
2ndDivision Norman 0-1-2
2nd Division Amos 2-0-1

Overall:
Cosmos 5-1-2
Amos 2-1-3
Norman 0-2-4

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Re: OPL Fall Brackets U12

Post by cosmos04 on Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:57 pm

I'm going to put something positive and something we can all agree on. Go USA

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Re: OPL Fall Brackets U12

Post by 05GKdad_Tulsa on Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:13 pm

Amen...think dos a cero will stand?
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Re: OPL Fall Brackets U12

Post by cosmos04 on Mon Jul 06, 2015 5:31 pm

Has anyone heard anything from osa, are they keeping it the way it is or keeping the mess the way it is?

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Re: OPL Fall Brackets U12

Post by Kickin grAss 04 on Mon Jul 06, 2015 6:01 pm

I am very curious myself to see what OSA decides.

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Re: OPL Fall Brackets U12

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